The Great Cloud of Witnesses
By Nina Leone
When I first began looking into Catholic teaching, one of my concerns was the Dogma of the Communion of Saints, where Catholics ask the Saints in Heaven to pray for them. I had been raised a Baptist, where this practice was looked at as the worship of the Saints and an act of idolatry. I was immensely concerned about becoming a Catholic because I did not want to violate the commandment of worshipping anyone other than God, so I set out to investigate the Catholic position, and was surprised at how much sense it actually made. Off the bat I was able to see that Catholics were 1) not worshipping anyone other than Trinity, and 2) had no intention of doing so. In this video, I would like to give a defense of the Catholic position on the Communion of the Saints, and why I now choose to ask the Saints in Heaven to intercede for me in prayer.
In Hebrews 12:1, we see that we are surrounded by what St. Paul describes as a great cloud of witnesses. And, what are they witnessing us doing? They are watching us run the race set before us to obtain salvation, the prize.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us
We know that the Body of Christ is comprised of Christians who are part of the one Church with one faith:
Ephesians 4:4-6 One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
The Saints in Heaven are part of that one body. They are Christians who, now having eternal life, have been perfected in grace and are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. They do not exit the one body when they die. Instead, they are more alive than you and I are, and have the gift of eternal life.
There is one body. Jesus Christ is the head, and we Christians (the Catholic Church) are the body. Jesus is the groom, and we are the bride. Jesus is not a polygamist. He does not have two bodies. The Saints in Heaven are not part of a different body of believers connected to the Head (Jesus). They are part of the one body, because there isn’t one body in Heaven and one on Earth. Christians are not separated from one another or by God from death. Romans 8:38-39 says “For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor might, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Many Protestants will say to this, “Well, the Saints are dead. They can’t hear you.” However, the Protestant Religion contradicts God and and His Word. Mark 12:27 says “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err”.
Do Protestants not believe that Christians have eternal life? In every sense of the word, the Saints in Heaven are alive, more so than even you and I, because they have eternal life, and are close to Jesus Christ. Many Protestants will respond to this claim by saying, “The Saints and Mary aren’t omniscient and omnipresent. They cant hear your prayers, and Mary cannot be with everyone all at the same time because she is not God.” Well, the Saints and Mary are not restricted by time, because they are outside of time and space, and are not restricted by it like we are, because they are in eternity. Protestants will agree with Catholics and say that demons can observe and hear us, and some will agree that angels can too, but of course, they will not say the same of the Saints. Scripture says in 1 Peter 5:8, “Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour.” Satan can roam around seeking anyone he can devour, all at once, and yet he is not God either. Scripture also says “No Eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, [nor has it] entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him” (1 Corinthians 2:9) and “Those in heaven rejoice over the repentance of even one sinner” (Lk 15:7, 10), “So also is the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown corruptible; it is raised incorruptible. It is sown dishonorable; it is raised glorious. It is sown weak; it is raised powerful” (1 Corinthians 15:42-43).
This brings us to the claim that Protestants make when they, often with hostility, fire 1 Timothy 2:5 at Catholics:
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus
To this, the Christian response is: Amen. There is only one mediator between God and men, and that is Jesus Christ. No one is disagreeing with that.The Saints are not the one mediator; they are intercessors, which is essentially a type of mediator. They intercede for us, pray for us, and go to Jesus on our behalf just like you might ask someone you believe has a good relationship with Christ and is holy to pray for you. The Saints and Mary, who are part of the one body of Christians connected to the head, Christ, also intercede for us. This is called the Communion of Saints. Do Protestants reject the unity our Lord commands us to have with one another by rejecting unity with the Saints in Heaven? Is not unity in Christianity essential? Would not the Protestant, by their own standard, be acting in the place of the one mediator any time they ask someone to pray for them? If it is wrong to ask the Saints in Heaven to intercede for us because “There is only one mediator”, then by that same standard it would be wrong to ask anyone here to pray for us as well.
St. Paul exhorts Christians to intercede for one another:
1 Timothy 2:1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:
Scripture also states that the prayers of the righteous person are far more efficacious:
James 5:16 The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
The Saints in Heaven, who have been perfected by grace, are powerful intercessors on our behalf. There are multiple examples of this throughout Scripture which we will explore shortly. Protestants will also throw in the verse, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me” John 14:6, and to that we say, “Amen. That is excellent Catholic teaching.” The Saints and Mary do not bypass Jesus to get to the Father. Instead, they intercede for us in prayer to Jesus, the one mediator. In all our prayers, we end them with the Sign of the Cross, and say them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen. Christian intercession is only possible because of Jesus and through Jesus, the one mediator. You may have noticed in the Hail Mary that the prayer ends with the words, “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.” This is an example of someone who is closest to Jesus, the Holy woman who carried Him and brought salvation itself into the world, and how she intercedes for us by us asking her to pray for us.
Protestants often confuse prayer with worship because they do not understand what worship is in the true sense, and do not have the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass. For the Protestant, all they have is praise and prayer. Nowhere in Scripture does it forbid a Christian from asking the Saints in Heaven who are Christians to pray for us. The Saints in Heaven are far more alive than we are, and when they go to Jesus for us, being made like Him, they help us with our needs and help us make the pilgrimage to Heaven to join their ranks. Some Protestants will charge Catholics with Necromancy. Necromancy is when one conjures up evil powers and spirits, looking to extract information from them, and to communicate with them through seances and occult rituals. This is a condemned practice, and is NOT what Catholics do. If Jesus did not want any communication between the Saints in Heaven and the saints on earth, He would not have transfigured before Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration, accompanied by two “dead” saints, Moses and Elijah.
Joe Moreaux from Return of the King explains the significance of this beautifully in the following words: “The fact that Moses and Elijah appear alongside Jesus during the Transfiguration suggests a continuity and connection between the earthly and heavenly realms. Moses and Elijah are figures from the Old Testament, yet they are present and recognizable. This event indicates that individuals who have departed from their earthly life still have a role to play and can interact with the living. If Moses and Elijah can be present and converse with our Lord Jesus, it clearly opens the door to show that other departed saints can also have a role in the lives of the living.
2. Dialogue and Concern for Earthly Events: The conversation that takes place between our Lord, Moses, and Elijah teaches a continuity of awareness and concern for earthly events. In Luke 9:30-31, it is mentioned that they spoke about Jesus' "departure" which he was to fulfill in Jerusalem. This suggests that these saints are not cut off from the events on Earth and remain engaged in matters related to God's plan. This is reminiscent of the intercessory role that Catholic doctrine ascribes to saints, where they pray and intercede on behalf of the living. As well, in Luke 20:37-38, our Savior says: "But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."
This statement by the Lord Jesus reveals that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who had long since passed away, are still considered to be alive in the eyes of God. In other words, their souls continue to exist after death and are in a state of being "alive" in God's presence.
This shows that the departed faithful are still alive in the presence of God in Heaven. The saints, who have died in a state of grace, are united with God in an eternal relationship. Therefore, when Jesus says that God is the God of the living, he is teaching that that those who have departed from this earthly life are not truly gone but continue to exist in a different, spiritual sense. They are more alive now than they were on Earth.”
There are many more examples of Saintly intercession in Scripture. Apocalypse 5:8 and Apocalypse 8:3-4 depict heavenly visions of Saints offering the prayers of the Christians to God. In Apocalypse (Which Protestants call '“Revelation”) we see this directly: "And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints" (Apocalypse 5:8). In Apocalypse 8:3-4 we see the prayers of the faithful being lifted to God by the hands of angels: “And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.”
Here are some other examples of angels interceding on behalf of the faithful:
Tobit 12:12: "So now when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and likewise whenever you buried the dead." In the book of Tobit, the archangel St. Raphael reveals his role in presenting Tobit and Sarah's prayers before God. This was another book removed from the Canon by the archheretic Luther.
Psalm 91:11-12: "For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone." This passage highlights the role of angels over Christians.
Matthew 18:10: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." Jesus indicates that each person has an angel in heaven who has a special connection with God. Indeed, our personal angel was assigned by God for us, and they always behold the face of the Father.
Acts 12:15: When Peter is miraculously released from prison by an angel, the Christians gathered to pray for his release are amazed that their prayers have been answered and attribute it to his angel.
In the parable about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:10-21. the rich man was in a place of great torment, but still begs Father Abraham to send Lazarus to his father’s house so that his five brothers could be warned, so that they too wouldn’t be sent to the place of torment. The rich man was still trying to help his family on earth, and while his request was not granted, he was still interceding for his family on earth, and Father Abraham, another “dead” saint is mentioned also.
In the Old Testament, Abraham intercedes for the city of Sodom, and in 2 Maccabees, a book Martin Luther removed from the Bible in the 16th century, the high priest Onias and the prophet Jeremiah pray for the Jews that have already died.
2 Maccabees 15:12-16 Now the vision was in this manner: Onias who had been high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in his looks, gentle in his manners, and graceful in his speech, and who from a child was exercised in virtues, holding up his hands, prayed for all the people of the Jews: After this there appeared also another man, admirable for age, and glory, and environed with great beauty and majesty: Then Onias answering, said: This is a lover of his brethren, and of the people of Israel: this is he that prayeth much for the people, and for all the holy city, Jeremias the prophet of God. Whereupon Jeremias stretched forth his right hand, and gave to Judas a sword of gold, saying Take this holy sword a gift from God, wherewith thou shalt overthrow the adversaries of my people Israel.
Why does this matter? It matters because it shows that the faithful on earth, the Church Militant, and the Saints who have gone to their eternal reward, the Church Triumphant, are not separated from one another because they all belong to the one body connected by Christ, and also remain connected to each other by charity. Even the souls in Purgatory, the Church Suffering, remain in this bond of charity and intercede on our behalf. 1 Corinthians 12 is a very important chapter in Scripture that talks about this bond of unity and charity. While Protestants blaspheme the Saints in Heaven and say, “We don’t need them! We can just go to Jesus ourselves,” Scripture is clear that we do need eachother. 1 Corinthians says in verses 18-21 “But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” This shows that we do need each other and don’t have the right to dispose of other members of the body. While we can and do go directly to Jesus for our needs, remember that the prayers of the Saints are especially efficacious and beneficial.
Lastly, Early Christian History supports this practice. Protestants run into a major problem. One would need to ask them when they think the Catholic Church fell off the tracks, which goes against the promise of Christ that the gates of hell would not prevail against it and whatever Peter and his successors bound as dogmas. They would need to be able to answer when the Church fell off the tracks and bound this false Dogma, and in what year. They, however, cannot point to any specific time, because this was already occurring not only prior to Luther’s rebellion, but since the early Church. Let’s examine what the Early Church said on this topic:
Hermas: (80 AD): “[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).
Clement of Alexandria: “In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).
Origen (185–254 AD): "But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels... as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep."
St. Cyprian of Carthage (200–258 AD): "Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides of death always pray for one another."
St. John Chrysostom (347–407 AD): "When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to His enemies... but to His friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to Him, and who have great power."
St. Jerome: “You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?” (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).
St. Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD):
St. Augustine “A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers” (Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400]).
St. Augustine “There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for the dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).
St. Augustine “At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps” (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]).
“Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church which even now is the kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ” (The City of God 20:9:2 [A.D. 419]).
This was also taught infallibly at the Council of Trent, "The saints, who reign together with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men. It is good and useful suppliantly to invoke them, and to have recourse to their prayers, aid, and help for obtaining benefits from God." –Session 25, Decree on the Invocation of Saints
Saints like St. Joan of Arc, who had St. Michael the Archangel, St. Margaret, and St. Catherine visit her from Heaven before she led France into victorious battle as a teenage peasant girl, serve as true events to remind us of this reality. It also shows that God does mighty things through His Saints.
The words in the Apostles Creed “I believe in the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints” are echoed by many Protestants who stole this Creed from the Catholic Church, and yet they have no idea what the words mean, while they condemn the unity and the communion of saints. Let us pray for all who remain outside of the communion of the saints due to being separated by heresy, that they return to the one body, that is, the Catholic (Universal) Church.
